good and bad "obedience"

Doing what God tells us to do (obedience) out of love for and trust in God is legit - as well as commanded by Christ himself. John 14:21-23

Doing what He tells us to do for any other reason is not. It is performance-based, operating in the flesh, etc.

The key is knowing why we act and not just how we act or what we do. For example, praying in itself isn't necessarily a righteous act. We can pray to impress others or solely for our personal benefit and not out of a desire to honor God and advance His purposes.

So why do we act... when are our actions legit? Always and only when done out of love for and trust in God so we would honor Him i.e. give him glory.

1. Sometimes we obey God out of loving affections for God

2. Sometimes out of faith alone.  

As long as we do so for his honor and glory and not to secure our own honor, we are to pursue him in faithful and loving obedience. 

We can never wait for feelings/affections or use lack of them as an excuse to not pursue him in faithful obedience. 

If we are to grow and experience more and more of the beauty, majesty, love and glory of God, obedience is not optional. It is the means by which our faith is exercised and we draw near to God.

NOTE, I did not say obedience is the means by which God draws near to us. We are exhorted to draw near to God, not the other way around. God being near to us is already set because of Christ's work on our behalf. God is 100% with us and committed to us if we are in Christ. Nothing we can do or not do will change this one iota. "It is finished" to use Christ's words. His loving us is never determined by our work...ever!

The beauty however, is God, in his grace and kindness, will often stir affections toward Him once we step out in faith for the right reason.

We obey so we can better honor and glorify God and be the most effective for Him in doing so.

Obedience, submission, and trust aren't about winning God's love for us, they're evidence of our love for Him.

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What about "waiting on the Lord?"

We only wait when it is not clear what Gods will is in a given circumstance. But when it is clear (e.g. his commandments), we act and don't look back.

The law saves?

The Law does not save us in the legal sense (for we could not and cannot perfectly keep it, and never will).

But it absolutely *saves us in the practical sense by giving us clear direction on how to operate to the maximum of our capacity and design, and fully participate in the purpose we were created for. Without clear direction, we are a rudderless ship, driven by our fickle emotions and tossed in the storms of life, ready to be cast onto the rocks.

The law is a problem for us legally (which only Christ can and did satisfy), but not practically.

Practically, it guides us and delivers us from mediocrity, guiding us toward maximum flourishing. It provides us with clear direction in our pursuit of excellence for the glory of God.

Legally, it's impossible to fulfill in our own strength.

Our problem is not the law but complete trust in the lawgiver; a trust created by God himself by fulfilling the legal obligation of obedience to the law i.e. when we understand how Christ fulfilled the law so we might be fully restored to the Father, we trust him.

It is Christ's provision of perfect obedience that already perfectly satisfied our legal obligation to the law and delivers us from suffering the just consequences for violating it.

And 

The law gives us clear guidance on how to best live according to his will and our design (practically) for us.

"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 

in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, 

who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Rom 8:1-4

Because Christ fulfilled the legal demands of obedience to the law, we no longer have to and can no longer be condemned for not doing so. Christ bore our condemnation for us, for our lack of faithful obedience, past, present, and future. If we are "in Christ," we are dead to sin's claim on us.

Now we are free to pursue God solely out of love - i.e. by or according to the Spirit - not out of the threat of rejection, condemnation, and judgment i.e. not according to the flesh. 

Perfect obedience is no longer an obligation to meet, satisfy, or fulfill to avoid rejection. Faithfulness to God - obedience - is now a passion within us driven by love i.e. by the Spirit

Living according to the law in order to be accepted and approved by God is no longer applicable. In Christ, we are already fully and perfectly accepted. We now seek to live "according to the law" to honor God, partake of him to the maximum of our design and potential as His image bearer.

Psalm 119. 

For more discussion on the meaning of "according to the Spirit" and related terms or phrases, click here. 

For a further discussion on excellence, click here. 

For more discussion on what drives obedience, click here

For more discussion on "working out your salvation," click here

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*not directly but as a means or vehicle by which God guides and directs us. 

Our legal vs practical relationship with God

The Bible speaks of two kinds of righteousness:

1. Legal - declared righteousness by grace through faith 
2. ¹Practical - day to day righteousness through faithful obedience. 

These two are distinct and appear to be in opposition when they are in fact connected.

Due to our rebellious distrust and a desire to be our own god, we are naturally inclined to confuse these and mix them together i.e. we see obedience as a means of earning God's acceptance, not as an expression of our already fully having it in Christ.

The following list compares and contrasts these two.

1.     The legal (our legal status and standing before God) can only be and is completely taken care of ^1aby God, not us.

2.     The relational can only be and is addressed ¹by us

1.  The legal has been taken care of ^2aby Christ's work. 

2.  The relational is addressed ^2aby our "work" of believing in that work.

1.     The legal is grounded in ^3aa past historical event 

2.     The relational is an ^3aon going present pursuit.

1.     The legal addresses God as our ^4arighteous judge 

2.     The relational addresses God as our ^4akind and loving Father

1.     The legal is about ^4aGods judgment and condemnation of us 

2.     The relational is about ^4aour love for him and fidelity to him

1.     The legal addresses ^4aGods posture-attitude-disposition towards us 

2.     The relational addresses ^4aour posture-disposition towards God

1.     The legal is ^5asettled, finished, completed, never to be re-litigated.

2.     The relational ^5ais ongoing, unfolding and never done.

The legal (1) is the foundation on which the practical/relational (2) is built.

Those who haven't received and experienced legal righteousness (1) attempt to use relational-practical day-to-day obedience-righteousness (2) to replace it i.e. they attempt to live righteously to gain God's acceptance, not because they already have it in Christ. 

The legal requirement of perfect righteousness can never be achieved (satisfied) by us i.e. our keeping God's commands perfectly because we are not able to. 

The legal is the foundation on which the relational is built. The relational/practical (2) flows from and is the fruit of assigned or declared righteous (1).

We cannot ²properly engage in the relational/practical (2) without clearly grasping the legal (1). 

Many of Paul's letters illustrate this. For example, Paul's spends the majority of his time laying the foundation of justification by faith in chapters 1-11 in Romans and chapters 1-4 in both Galatians and Ephesians, before discussing how to live out that faith in chapters 12 to the end of Romans and chapter 5 to the end of Galatians and Ephesians. You also see this laid out in just chapter 3 of Colossians alone.

The following passages also show these two realities juxtaposed to each other, while also showing how they are completely connected.

Rom 6:4  

(1)We were buried (past tense and legal status) therefore with him by baptism into death,

(2) in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk (present tense and daily conduct) in newness of life.

Rom 7:4  

(1)Likewise, my brothers, you also have died (past tense, legal status) to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead,

 (2) in order that we may bear fruit (present tense, daily conduct) for God.

Rom 8:3-4 

(1) For God has done (past tense, legal status) what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,

(2) in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk (present tense, daily conduct) not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Note this contrast and connection is addressed in verse 4 of each of chapters 6, 7 and 8 of Romans (this makes it easy to remember the reference). This also shows the significance of this truth by repeating it three times in sequence using different examples in slightly different ways. The further significance of this is many consider Romans the fullest explanation of the gospel in all its facets and the pinnacle of Paul's letters as well as the New Testament itself, with chapters 6-8 being the pinnacle of Romans, particularly chapter 8.  

Do you wish to live righteously? You can not until you first grasp the full extent of your legal righteousness in Christ. The greater your grasp of this righteousness earned by another and given to you the greater will be it's fruit i.e. day to day righteousness. 

For additional posts discussing our legal vs practical status click here. 

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^1aThis addresses who

^2aThis addresses who and how

^3aThis addresses when

^4aThis addresses who and what

^5aThis addresses what and when

¹I am using "practical" and "relational" interchangeably because our obedience-practical righteousness is based on trust in God - i.e. it is relational. Trust is vital to our relationship with God and how we enter into that love already fully secured for us legally in Christ. 

²Neither can we completely appreciate or benefit from the legal (1) without fully engaging in the relational-practical (2). Our failure to obey perfectly requires us to go back to the work of Christ and remember God's acceptance is not based on our perfect obedience but on the obedience of Christ, an obedience that is already fully completed and can not be added to. This increases our appreciation for His work i.e. due to our failed obedience -- and know with certainty, you will fail and often -- increasingly helps us see the full extent of his work in freeing us from condemnation. 

The following passage best summarizes and captures these truths:

"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." - Rom 8:1-4

A conversation regarding obedience

In Nov. of 2017 I posted the following on Facebook. 

"Why do we pursue God, out of love or fear? 

Both! 

Out of love because he first loved us. 

Out of fear because operating contrary to God's design (how and why he made us) always has an adverse effect (if not immediately, eventually)."

This resulted in an instructive conversation between Rick (a FB friend) and I. I am posting that conversation below to illustrate the misunderstanding, tension, and confusion around our pursuit of (obedience to) God in the hope of clarifying some of the dynamics of that pursuit.

Now to Rick's response and the conversation that followed:

___________________________________________________________

Rick: 

You mean you aren't a Christian Hedonist? :/ I'm not either :)

Other valid reasons to seek God...

God exists and is the source of all meaning, purpose, and value. Without God, there would be none of these in an objective sense.

God is the ultimate authority over all creation and deserves our utmost obedience to his will, his pleasure and his purpose.

God is the ultimate worth and he is worthy of our praise and worship. Our surrender to God's will is the first step towards truly worshipping God.

Jim: (In response, I sent Rick the following blog post on the dynamics of what moves us to pursue and obey God)

http://thotsaboutgod.blogspot.com/2017/02/an-anatomy-of-motivation.html

Rick quotes from the above blog article adding his comments below...

Rick: 

"An anatomy of motivation - There are two overall but opposite approaches we observe in scripture regarding our motivation to obedience. All underlying forms of motivation fall under these two. These two broader areas are...

· positive motivation
· negative motivation"

His added comments...

- These two categories of motivation are based on the idea that we can expect something good or we can expect something bad. Another option that I believe is important is to acknowledge the authority of God as a basis of motive. In this respect, it is not so much what we personally expect but who God objectively is that forms the basis. If we believe God exists, we can obey God simply because of God's authority, without even contemplating what we personally expect. For example. We are commanded to submit to God and obey God. I can do this simply because God has clearly commanded it and not necessarily for any other reason. Do you agree?

Jim:

Yes, but I believe there's a bit more to obedience than simple willpower. If you haven't read the rest of the article at the above link it hints at this. 

Paul also points out it is God who enables us to choose and desire to pursue him in vs 13 of the following: 

"Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure." Php 2:12-13

How does he do so? By appealing to self-interest. For example, we are told in Heb 11:6 "And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him." The appeal of this verse is not just that God exists but OUR (us/self) being rewarded. 

Another example is "to gain your life you must lose it." What's the appeal? Us gaining life. The verse simply tells us the best way that happens is by losing our life i.e. we don't find our life by seeking life but by seeking God who is life. 

There is a difference between self-interest and self-ISHNESS. Not distinguishing these causes confusion. Several posts on my blog touch on this. If interested let me know.

Rick: 

Those are interesting verses and I would not be opposed to reading your articles. Because there are so many scriptural aspects of obedience to God, to me this implies that there are many valid motives that can overlap and are not mutually exclusive. I believe that there is a danger of taking a verse like Heb 11:6 and suggesting that this one verse codifies our approach towards obedience to God. For example, there is the motive of love of God that Jesus stated was a valid motive:

"If you love me, keep my commands." John 14:16

The word love is from the Greek "agape" which is translated as a self-less benevolent and giving type of love. So in other words, our motive for obedience based on this verse is not self-interest but is based on pleasing God.

Jim:

Love is THE key motive to obedience. So the question becomes how and when do we love God i.e. what is the cause of (stirs up) our love for him. Scripture clearly teaches our love (the key motive "behind" obedience) is a RESPONSE to his love for us. 1 Jn 4:10 "In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins." In 1Jn 4:19 John goes on to say, "We love because he first loved us." We are not the initiators of love, God is.

This is also implied in John 15. It says without me "you can do nothing..." (vs 5) i.e. we can not bear fruit on our own. Fruit in the context is loving God and others (vs 12,17). So our loving God and others is based on and caused by our abiding in his love for us (vs 9). We can not love as God loves - i.e. sacrificially - otherwise. To say it another way, we are not the cause or source of love but the conduits of it.

Re: the Hebrews passage...it is simply an example, not a proof text. Self-interest is implied throughout scripture. His great offer is eternal life to us i.e. our eternal life. Even fear of the consequences for disobedience is the fear of US suffering. We do nothing apart from self-interest. 

Christ's very appeal to loving our neighbor is love for ourselves "...love your neighbor AS you love yourself..." He doesn't condemn our love of self (our desiring what is best for ourselves) he assumes it and makes his appeal based on that assumption.

The issue isn't our wanting what is best for us, it's how is that best accomplished. Through self-effort or in and by God i.e. through his love for us. 

I think the issue is we don't realize our greatest joy is IN God and recognizing the greatness of his glory i.e. our greatest joy (pleasure) and God's highest glory are not in opposition to each other but tied together. To say it another way, pursuing God and his highest glory IS our greatest joy (pleasure).

Rick: 

Jim Deal - "Self-interest is implied throughout scripture. His great offer is eternal life for US i.e. OUR eternal life." ...Christ's very appeal to loving our neighbor is love for ourselves "...love your neighbor AS you love yourself..." He doesn't condemn our love of self (our desiring what is best for us)

I'm sorry, but implications of our self-interest are always subservient to the interest of pleasing God in the whole of scripture, and plainly commanded as such, and to place our self-interest on equal grounds with pleasing God I believe is shown to be actually heretical based on traditional interpretations.

To take your first point, eternal life is epitomized by relationship together with God: "Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." (John 17:3) And relationship is defined as "being one" in the spirit: "I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one" (John 17:22) --- These verses do not imply that eternal life is based on focusing on the self or that the motive for eternal life is self-interest, rather, the focus is on interrelationship and unity for the glory of God, that is, mainly for GOD'S sake, not our own.

In your second point, you reference the second part of a two-part command and left out the most important first command: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’[a] 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] There is no commandment greater than these.” (Mark 12:30-31)

Matthew Henry clarifies the primacy of scriptural value:

"As we must, therefore, love God BETTER THAN ourselves, because he is Jehovah, a being infinitely better than we are, and must love him with all our heart, because he is one Lord, and there is no other like him; so we must love our neighbor AS OURSELVES, because he is of the same nature with ourselves;" (emphasis added). Here is Matthew Henry's full commentary on this verse:

2. That the second great commandment is, to love our neighbor as ourselves (v. 31), as truly and sincerely as we love ourselves, and in the same instances, and we must show it by doing as we would be done by. As we must therefore love God better than ourselves, because he is Jehovah, a being infinitely better than we are, and must love him with all our heart, because he is one Lord, and there is no other like him; so we must love our neighbour as ourselves, because he is of the same nature with ourselves; our hearts are fashioned alike, and my neighbour and myself are of one body, of one society, that of the world of mankind; and if a fellow-Christian, and of the same sacred society, the obligation is the stronger. Hath not one God created us? Mal. 2:10. Has not one Christ redeemed us?"

If we try to ignore or deny a direct commandment, that clearly states pleasing God (with others-centered agape love) is the highest commandment, and offer that self-interest is on par with or even above the command to please God, how is this not patently heterical?

"our greatest joy (pleasure) and God's highest glory are not in opposition to each other but tied together."

This is basically a toned-down re-phrasing of Piper's maxim. However, the phrase "God is not most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in him" is misleading because the true measure of God's glory is not our personal satisfaction. The highest measure of God's glory is our conformity with God's nature and will, which is most emphasized by conforming to God's nature and will, which is based on agape love and holiness.

Scripture advocates worshipping God in spirit and in truth:

"God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” (John 4:24).

Piper completely discounts many critical aspects of worship, such as affirming and meditating on truth, and heretically demands that the worship of God is based on emotions as an end in and of themselves:

"It can be done only when spontaneous affections arise in the heart. And these affections for God are an end in themselves. They are the essence of eternal worship" (p92 DG)

Jim, I am reading a brief but excellent new book on Piper titled "Christian Hedonism? A biblical examination of John Piper's teaching" by ES Williams, and I believe that it might help you to glean from his research some of the many critical scriptural errors of CH.

Jim:

Rick W Thanks for the feedback.

I don't disagree with anything you said.

Everything must be subservient to God simply because he is the cause of all things (i.e. a more than sufficient reason if there were no other one) "... For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen..." (Rom 11:36)

Nothing in scripture (regarding our obedience) is based on FOCUSING on self.

It sounds like you are equating self-interest with selfishness and that our interests are ABOVE Gods. I've said neither.

What I am saying is our (self's) best interest is IN God. God is our (self's) best interest.

My point is in order for us (self) to know and enjoy God, "self" is not set aside but fully engaged. We (us, self) give God the greatest glory when we (self) find him our greatest joy, treasure, pursuit etc. This isn't putting self above God at all. It is self delighting IN God above all things, vs self delighting in created things over and above God the Creator (our delighting in creation above God is the essence of self ISHNESS. It is seeking to make life work WITHOUT God i.e. through what I can obtain by myself and solely for myself. It is seeking meaning, purpose, joy, etc independent of God for my glory, not his).

However our (self) finding God to be more glorious than anything else "shows him off" (brings attention to his infinite glory, i.e. glorifies him). To believe and then act as if something is more valuable than God, dishonors him. When we find God our greatest delight and pursuit we are telling others, God is more important to me than anything else and therefore could be to you as well.

Regarding the greatest commandment, this actually underscores the point I am seeking to make. Loving our neighbor flows out of loving God first (which is the fruit of his love for us). It all starts with God, is through God and is for God i.e. for his glory e.g. Rom 11:36 

End of our FB conversation. 

In this conversation, we are dealing with very nuanced points. Facebook is generally not the best place for in-depth discussion and contemplation of such things. I say this because after looking this over there are things I did not address that I could have. Therefore I offer these additional thoughts.

Regarding obedience to God out of fear i.e. respect for God, even this is based on "self-interest" i.e. I wish to honor God out of respect for him and because he is worthy of all honor/respect but why do I respect Him?  Because he is all-wise, all-powerful, and just and I don't want something bad happening to me (self) if I don't honor him as such. This isn't selfish. It is rooted in our very being as God's image-bearer. Our being a creature who desires our own best interest is actually necessary in order for us to be able to enjoy and honor God who is most high and most delightful. 

For more on this point click here. 

Rick said, "I'm sorry, but implications of our self-interest are always subservient to the interest of pleasing God in the whole of scripture, and plainly commanded as such, and to place our self-interest on equal grounds with pleasing God I believe is shown to be actually heretical based on traditional interpretations."

This is a common misunderstanding and is hardest to grasp. God's highest glory and our greatest joy are not in competition or opposed to each other or that we can only do one or the other. So there are no "equal grounds." They are tied together but not equal because everything must start with God. Nothing happens if God were not all glorious. However, our greatest joy is God's highest glory. The more we exalt him - recognize His glory - the more we experience Him as He is and the greater our joy becomes. Joy is the result of recognizing and acting upon God's greatness - His infinite glory. We find him to be our greatest joy when we lift him up (glorify him) as the highest/greatest (most delightful) being of all beings or things and the only one worthy of our honor and greatest delight. This is not an "either/or" scenario. God's glory and our delight in God go hand in hand but in that order. It always must start with God, not us. If God were not the greatest of all beings, we would not and could not find the great joy that is God himself. And we are wired this way because this is how God designed us, so we might share in His glory as He does as Father and Son in by and through the Spirit. To enjoy God most we have to be most like Him without being God i.e. we are in His image.

Rick said:

Another option that I believe is important is to acknowledge the authority of God as a basis of motive. In this respect, it is not so much what we personally expect but who God objectively is that forms the basis. If we believe God exists, we can obey God simply because of God's authority, without even contemplating what we personally expect. For example. We are commanded to submit to God and obey God. I can do this simply because God has clearly commanded it and not necessarily for any other reason. Do you agree?"

Whether Rick deliberately intends to, the implication of what he is proposing is we have within ourselves the spiritual strength to obey God by simply willing ourselves to do so without God empowering us i.e. apart from his Love/Spirit. This is placing our will as the key (central) to obedience instead of God. However, God is the driving force behind our obedience, not our will. It is God who works in us "...both to will and to work for his good pleasure." Our will is an intricate part of obedience but it is not the central part, God is. Our will is vital in deciding (choosing) to believe God is who He claims to be and does (did and will do) what He promises/claims He will do. But this is choosing to believe is anchored into who God is generally and who He is for us specifically. It is based on faith in the character of God,  not faith based on faith in itself or how great our will is.

For a further discussion on this point click here.

The following verses clearly show the will and desire to obey God come from God, not us. Yes, it is our desires but desires that God "works" in and through us by revealing to us His great glory. 

Philippians 2:12-13 English Standard Version (ESV) 

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

Though we are in God's image which allows us (gives us the capacity) to honor and enjoy God, absent God's Spirit/Love we are dead to God. We are not the source/cause/initiators of sacrificial love. Only God is. We can only love sacrificially when we know God loves us sacrificially and "has our back" i.e. God honors and rewards us and all our actions when done for his honor.

For more discussions on obedience click here.  

For more discussion on how our worth is tied to God's click here. 

Being loved vs experiencing it.

We are perfectly connected and united to God and fully accepted, loved and embraced by God in and through Christ. 

Full stop! 

This is our status and standing before God. It is fixed, settled and complete. 

Because of this, nothing we do or don't do will take away from or add to His love for us. This is an objective reality that does not change and is not based on what we do or how we feel.

But how do we connect with God practically and more fully experience and partake of this love that God has fully set upon us? The following 2 verses give us an indication.

"Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.” - Jn 14:21

Jesus answered him,

“If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and WE will come to him and make our home with him. - Jn 14:23

At 1st glance these two verses sound like the Father and the Son's love for us, and being present with us, plus Christ manifesting himself to us are all contingent on our performance i.e. earned by us, not given to us as a gift.

However we are told elsewhere in several places that salvation is by grace i.e. a gift, not something we deserve or can earn.

So which is it? Is God's love a gift or earned.

What these verses indicate is faithful obedience - keeping God's commandments, doing what Christ says, is key and essential to our everyday experience of God - to His manifesting Himself to us and our having a sense of His ongoing, abiding presence. It is drawing near to God so we can experience His presence i.e. Him drawing near to us.

But to do what he says does

not happen without our love for God "...if you love me keep my commandments..." i.e. do as I say...obey me.

John 14:21, 23 clearly tell us that in order to experience (not cause) his love we must do as he says - obey His commands (the greatest commandments being that we love God with all we are and have and our neighbor as our self).

The more we do, the more aligned we are with Him and His will relationally (vs legally which is perfectly settled) and the more fully our experience of His love is and grows. The more we experience His love, the more we love him in return and do as He says. It is a kind of spiritual feedback loop if you will.

So which comes first...His love or our obedience?

We are told we love him because he 1st loved us. God is the primary cause of our relationship with Him, and His love is the driving force in all our faithfulness/ obedience to Him. We must trust in this love to enter into and partake of it. But His love for us comes before our faithfulness to Him and trust in Him (Rom 5:8; Eph 2:4-5). Trust is stirred up in us and driven by His love for us 1st i.e. by God Himself. He is the driver and initiator of love to, for, and in us.

For a further discussion on this point click here.

Do you wish to be more faithful to God? Then start digging into what God has done for you and revealed to you about himself in and through Christ. Ask Him to reveal Himself to you more. Faith comes by and through hearing the words of God's promises to us. 

Practically and from our side of the relationship we must faithfully pursue him to experience Him. Our faithfulness does not cause God to love us but it does align us with His heart, will, and desire - i.e. who He is - so we might better see and experience Him as the all-loving God He is for us and others.

It's not unlike a husband and wife (or any other significant relationship) who dearly love each other but for some reason are not able to talk and spend time together due to circumstances. They never stop caring and loving each other, but when they get back together, and communicate and demonstrate their love for each other, they experience it anew again. Their love "comes back to life" as they renew it through each other's loving actions. 

God is love, and his love is secured for us by Christ's efforts, not ours. It never stops or changes, regardless of what we do or don't do. But our experiencing that love to the fullest extent is contingent on our faithful pursuit of God i.e., obedience to Him.

While it is important to contemplate his love for us - and all Christ did to demonstrate it - we must act by faith in or upon that love to enter into and experience it more fully i.e., spend regular time with Him and show our affections for him by doing loving deeds for each other. 

While God's love for us is fully secured and fixed upon us because of Christ, our obedience to God's commandment to love others releases our experience of God's love for us by letting it flow through us to others.

For a discussion on what true obedience is, click here. 

For a discussion on how we are inclined or seek to earn God's love, click here.

For a discussion on the difference between "Cultural Christians" and grace-driven followers of Christ, click here.

For a discussion on whether obedience to the law is required or not, click here.