However,
when God embraced the creation through his incarnation and personally
participated in its pain, suffering and loss as the flesh and blood
Son of man, in some sense, he experienced some kind of loss/separation within the triune being of God i .e. what
Christ formally fully had, ¹he set aside for a time, experiencing ²"loss" of what he formally fully ³possessed throughout eternity past?
Joh 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in
your own presence with the glory that I had with you
before the world existed.
(AMP) And now,
Father, glorify Me along with Yourself and restore Me to
such majesty and honor in Your presence as I had with You
before the world existed.
The above passage indicates during the incarnation, Christ was not
For a discussion on whether God "needs"
For a further discussion of the incarnation click here.
_________________________________________________________________
Footnotes:
¹Philippians 2 speaks of Christ setting aside something of his eternal attributes. Even
today it appears Christ still exists in a localized physical (but glorified) body. This is a change from his previous experience of total
omnipresence - though we could argue that some theophanies in the OT were Christ appearing as a man for short periods of time.
This raises the question of whether "God ever changes." God never changes in the essence of his
being - He is same yesterday, today and forever - but is it possible he can change in the economy of his actions? The
incarnation, life, death, and resurrection seem to indicate so. Though we may not be dogmatic on this or fully comprehend it, or do we need to necessarily, this passage indicates something unique occurred along this line.
²I put
"loss" in quotes because ultimately this may have been gain and not loss
in a similar way we gain a greater and fuller appreciation of God's unfettered
presence through our loss of it i.e. as the saying goes, absence makes the
heart grow fonder. Is this what it means for God to have the knowledge
of good and evil, i. e. good in contrast to evil? Though Christ's suffering of evil occurred at a point in history, the knowledge of this was ever-present with God since God knows all things and is not bound to time. We are told at the outset, this was a quality of God's character before man's rebellion and the allure of gaining this quality was how humanity was enticed away from God.
³i.e. omnipresence at a minimum? Though he initially set aside far more than this - e.g. he also set aside total omnipotence and omniscience during the incarnation, to name two of
Christ's
participation in the incarnation was not only for us but for himself - and the
Godhead through him. By experiencing a self-imposed emptying (loss) he
became experientially (more fully?) aware of His dependence on the Father in a way he hadn't before, gaining first-hand experience and a greater appreciation
of what he had in the fellowship/ communion/union with the Father by and through the Spirit. Like us, Christ gained an appreciation for the good he formally had, i.e. his relationship with His Father, by losing something of it for a time. This may be the reason for the joy He experienced in anticipation of returning to the Father.
"...looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God."
Heb 12:2 ESV
Did God participate in and experience the evil of suffering for the same reason he allows us
to; to create a greater appreciation for the presence of the Father by experiencing his absence?
In the truest and most important sense, there is no "before" in God
Why
explore things that are only inferred in scripture and not stated explicitly ?
Because some explicit statements and teachings in scripture appear to contradict other
explicit statements. For example, there is no evil in God yet God knows good and
evil. Christ is fully man yet fully God. God is one in essence yet
three distinct persons. What do we do with these paradoxes and seeming
contradictions? We should not ignore them because we can not fully make sense of them but attempt to see how
they might work and fit together and what, if any, benefit can be gained in doing so. If it helps us to better know and honor God it is a worthy pursuit, is it not?
Some mayfeel this inquiry is fruitless. I would suggest the opposite.
If you wish to further explore the value of paradox, click here.
If you wish to further explore God using evil for good, click here.
Some may
If you wish to further explore the value of paradox, click here.
If you wish to further explore God using evil for good, click here.
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Grace to you
Jim Deal